VOCM Story on the Herder

Central West Senior Hockey League discussions - Clarenville Caribous, Grand Falls Windsor Cataracts & Gander Flyers.
NLHockeyInsider
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:21 am

https://vocm.com/2019/11/23/herder/

Jack Casey’s comments are sure to ruffle some feathers.

aseyeseesit
Posts: 215
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:23 pm

ECSHL President,Jack Casey, is quoted in the VOCM story as stating that the ECSHL is "amateur" hockey , and that by extension(?) that if a player is paid they cannot claim to be an "amateur"...
Sorry Jack but that kind of analysis is completely wrong. HNL regulates amateur hockey ,(and its predecessor, NAHA, did the same task in the past). But these institutions have a simple and clear definition of "amateur" that is applied. That definition under the 'parent' body, Hockey Canada constitution is what is applied, and that definition states that "an amateur hockey player is a player who does not make their living playing hockey:" A professional is set alongside that definition as a "player who makes their living playing hockey". Simply being paid does not result in being a professional -- ie. not an amateur!
So, don't confuse the issue to imply the Cats or Flyers - or any of the great NL 'AMATEUR' hockey teams from the last 75 years when teams outside St.John's started playing for the Herder Trophy - are not amateur hockey teams/players...

Seniorfan
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:59 pm

So based on the comments accredited to Jack Casey in this story the main reason for the mess senior hockey is in right now is that the person leading the charge against interlocking games is doing so because he doesn't understand the definitions of amateur and professional hockey. Well this should be easy to solve. Someone tell him please.

NLHockeyInsider
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:10 pm

People who are semi-professional are paid for an activity that they take part in but do not do all the time:
semi-professional musicians/athletes
:roll:

Seniorfan
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:18 pm

Hockey Canada only has two categories; professional and amateur. People are free to make up what ever they want but personal opinions don't stand up against facts.

NLHockeyInsider
Posts: 187
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:42 pm

Seniorfan wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:18 pm
Hockey Canada only has two categories; professional and amateur. People are free to make up what ever they want but personal opinions don't stand up against facts.
That definition came from the Cambridge Dictionary. But you’re right, my “personal opinion” is wrong here because it’s not what you want to hear. It’s not as cut and dry as Hockey Canada makes it out to be which is a problem in itself and something Hockey Canada should probably address if they have any interest in saving Senior Hockey Nationally and the Allan Cup.

At the end of the day, 9 other teams and what I would think would be the majority in the NL hockey community don’t see what the Cataracts and Flyers have been doing as “amateur” and that’s why they don’t have a game of a hockey at the moment. The only people that are going to disagree with me are people from central who support those two teams and the players who are getting paid the large sums of money.

Just because Hockey Canada doesn’t recognize or classify it as semi-professional doesn’t mean it isn’t semi-professional. There’s nothing more clear cut than a definition from the dictionary.

Seniorfan
Posts: 600
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:14 am
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:00 pm

You've chosen to cite the wrong source. What matters is the two categories recognized by Hockey Canada. It is afterall the governing body for hockey in Canada. You can disagree with their standing on this matter but once again personal opinions don't count. Try sending your dictionary to HC and see if it makes them change their viewpoint. It may be your opinion the HC should use the Cambridge Dictionary when deciding on how they categorize players. The fact however is that they don't. Maybe you should be arguing with them instead.

Stadium Fries
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:17 pm
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:48 pm

NLHockeyInsider wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:42 pm
Seniorfan wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:18 pm
Hockey Canada only has two categories; professional and amateur. People are free to make up what ever they want but personal opinions don't stand up against facts.
That definition came from the Cambridge Dictionary. But you’re right, my “personal opinion” is wrong here because it’s not what you want to hear. It’s not as cut and dry as Hockey Canada makes it out to be which is a problem in itself and something Hockey Canada should probably address if they have any interest in saving Senior Hockey Nationally and the Allan Cup.

At the end of the day, 9 other teams and what I would think would be the majority in the NL hockey community don’t see what the Cataracts and Flyers have been doing as “amateur” and that’s why they don’t have a game of a hockey at the moment. The only people that are going to disagree with me are people from central who support those two teams and the players who are getting paid the large sums of money.

Just because Hockey Canada doesn’t recognize or classify it as semi-professional doesn’t mean it isn’t semi-professional. There’s nothing more clear cut than a definition from the dictionary.
At the end of the day 9 other teams pay some players but deny it. It might be a gas card but they are paid.
When you have a general manager of a team that was part of a group that had teams sign a no interlocking league games representing HNL there has to be a conflict of interest and he should resign.
Especially when that same organization is trying to save hockey in Central by having those interlocking games.

Tomcod
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:58 pm

According to your theory Insider , major junior Ahockey players receive free room and board plus spending money and also university hockey players receive the best package deal they can get which cost a lot of money , they are all professional hockey players

aseyeseesit
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:46 pm
What colour is a puck?: black

Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:16 am

"Hockey 'Lies" , as many on this site refer to "Hockey Eyes", regularly describes the east league as "amateur hockey", in attempts to somehow discredit hockey in central as not amateur... It is such petty jealousy!
Hockey NL regulates all 'amateur hockey' in the province - from minor hockey to senior hockey divisions,(and every other amateur division in between. And, in its regulation of Senior hockey from the days of the NAHA to HNL currently, teams like the Cats and Flyers here in central have proudly played for the Herder - and won quite a few of them . (And, by the way, the Herder is described in the HNL constitution as the Provincial Championship Trophy, emblematic of supremcy in AMATEUR senior hockey in NL!).
So, give us a break with the childish, inaccurate attempts to imply that the hockey that central senior hockey teams play is not amateur hockey... you should be grateful to us for having such a small population to pick from that we have to use young players from the east to join our always- small size number of local players to help us win so many Herders. You have 80% of the hockey players in NL living on the Avalon, and you still can't find a line or two of them to ice a competitive team to beat the teams out here in the 'wilderness' of central! ( FYI: We only use 8 or 9 of them 'max' , out of a possible 25 player roster per team under roster size rules).

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