No Herder?? Or Is There?

Central West Senior Hockey League discussions - Clarenville Caribous, Grand Falls Windsor Cataracts & Gander Flyers.
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santana500
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Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:19 am

There is suppose to be no Herder this year because the East are not in a Provincial league and the West are not registered as a Senior A league. We will see! All because of interlocking play. How much will HNL lose? Time will see what transpires.

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puckit
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Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:55 am

santana500 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:19 am
There is suppose to be no Herder this year because the East are not in a Provincial league and the West are not registered as a Senior A league. We will see! All because of interlocking play. How much will HNL lose? Time will see what transpires.
HNL should lose all their credibility, in my opinion. They have weakened provincial senior hockey with their interference in the CWSHL . Hockey was brought back from the dead by a group of dedicated hockey people and volunteers who revived the old senior circuit. It took a few tough years and a lot of growing pains to create some of the finest skilled hockey teams, the likes that hadn't been seen since the late 1980's, rivalling the ECHL and the AHL with the talent that was delivered to the fans. Then HNL decided they had to get involved, get their cut of the gate, implement their rules, all for the betterment of the game! Bravo! Job, well done? Excuse me if I don't pat them on the back. They've destroyed hockey in Central NL. The fans know all about the "improvements" they forced on the league. Sort of like the way organised crime operates. Unbelievable, but they got what they wanted. A watered down league playing on the Avalon peninsula with the old Telegram Herder Trophy being awarded to a worthy champion once again. All is good in their little world, but it's a sad pathetic little world.
If at first you don't succeed....PUCKIT!

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Mr. BoJangles
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Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:45 pm

puckit wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:55 am
santana500 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:19 am
There is suppose to be no Herder this year because the East are not in a Provincial league and the West are not registered as a Senior A league. We will see! All because of interlocking play. How much will HNL lose? Time will see what transpires.
HNL should lose all their credibility, in my opinion. They have weakened provincial senior hockey with their interference in the CWSHL . Hockey was brought back from the dead by a group of dedicated hockey people and volunteers who revived the old senior circuit. It took a few tough years and a lot of growing pains to create some of the finest skilled hockey teams, the likes that hadn't been seen since the late 1980's, rivalling the ECHL and the AHL with the talent that was delivered to the fans. Then HNL decided they had to get involved, get their cut of the gate, implement their rules, all for the betterment of the game! Bravo! Job, well done? Excuse me if I don't pat them on the back. They've destroyed hockey in Central NL. The fans know all about the "improvements" they forced on the league. Sort of like the way organised crime operates. Unbelievable, but they got what they wanted. A watered down league playing on the Avalon peninsula with the old Telegram Herder Trophy being awarded to a worthy champion once again. All is good in their little world, but it's a sad pathetic little world.
I agree 100% Puckit!!! And by the way, can you get rid of "all" the Hockey Insiders on this site? It is because of a few trolls like this, I don't post much on here anymore and suggest there are lots like me. Can't have a sensible discussion without verbal diarrhea coming from out east. The majority of "true" hockey fans are from Central- West. Passionate and loyal unlike finicky and critical on the Avalon. Enjoy your $75 50-50 draw and the refried fries.

aseyeseesit
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Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:20 pm

"Insider" , you state that Clarenville "saw the light" and moved east , because they wanted to sustain themselves...
But , the comments of the previous posts that you denigrated were spot on - that (i)the calibre of hockey in the CWSHL over the last 15 years or so has been superior; and , (ii)fans by the thousands came out in support.
What you reference as "sustainability" is just word to describe 'watered down' calibre hockey which attracts very, very few fans.
It is a version of senior hockey which is essentially for the players - not fans!
The Senior A hockey off the Avalon was organized for fans - the primary purpose. And, for that quality of hockey, players had to be recruited from the most populous part of NL - the Avalon, and, from the mainland where we also recruited a few higher calibre players from a 'bigger pool' of players on the Mainland ... until HNL cut that source of players out all together.
Too many of various of the east teams' players turn up to play, or don't turn up at all , as they like - all very much at their convenience: Not very entertaining. And, certainly in at least half of the East League's venues - Caps, Eagles and Clarenville - there is clearly no fan base interested enough to come out and watch. (The 50/50 is in the range of $75.00, as Hockey Eyes noted recently! )

aseyeseesit
Posts: 218
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Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:22 pm

"Insider", any comments I submitted were not stupid, thank you very much.
Rather, my comments were to the point: People like you clearly don't consider having fans actually come out and watch games matters. Having a venue for players to go out and play is the end goal.
That is the rub of it all - if , (as you have submitted), "sustainability" of a team - so that the players have a place to go for "a game of hockey") - is the objective , then, it won't much matter if just a "few 'girlfriends' or close buddies or the like" are the only people who actually go out to their games. And, it appears at present that is exactly the case for any attendance interest in the current versions of the teams in Clarenville, Torbay , and Caps... ( I don't think in fact there is even space enough in Twin Rinks to get but a handful of 'observers' in there).
So, you get to "sustain" 14 or 15 games over 4 months or so, this Season - a quarter of your games cancelled to date with not many people actually going to those games (!) - except, on the Southern Shore and in 'hockey starved' Harbour Grace, and apparently a struggling effort to keep interest among any fans in CBS.

Zekie
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Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:04 pm

NLHockeyInsider3 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:19 pm
What a joke these people are. To say that any senior hockey played in this province since the 80’s is at a caliber close to even ECHL or get this the AHL ( a top five league in the world) is just asinine. You guys can blame everyone else all you want for having no hockey in central this season but at the end of the day the blame sits squarely on the Cataracts and Flyers. It’s easy to play the blame game, enjoy your Intermediate league. I’ll enjoy the ECSHL playoffs, SJJHL playoffs; which by the way seen their final draw better than the Herder games out in central last season (true hockey fans eh?), and hopefully another long playoff run by the Growlers.
Insider, just for your enlightenment, I had a conversation with Cam Fergus a few years ago when he was tearing it up in the West League. I asked him how our hockey compared to the ECSHL. He said it was on par. The biggest difference in his opinion, which I take any day, was that in our league players were defenceless with the asinine two fight rule. Something to consider.

Without a doubt. for the 10 years or so I followed the West league I'd say were watching the best Senior hockey in Canada at that time.

Oh just a fan
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Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:34 pm

You guys are all falling for him. Leave that to me, you continue your intelligent conversation, all with valid points and examples to back them up. I’ll make fun of this loser. The one who wants to continue to suggest fans don’t watch the league out there due to the fact that there’s plenty more to do. There’s also plenty more people. Can’t get that through his thick head. But again that’s not the point. If you guys want that out that way, thats fine. Why does HNL have to step in 7-8 years ago and do away with the imports? Oh because the teams here were winning to much is why. Same reason is didn’t work back in the 80’s when the Cats were winning back then too. No surprises here, teams not from a place called St John’s can never win out there. I’ve seen in for years, in my years of playing multiple sports at multiple levels. You can’t win against the almighty east coast.

I’ve always been in favour of the teams around here making their own league, screw HNL. Bring back imports and fighting and it would work. And yes you would still get referees, HNL don’t own them as well.

Hockey Eyes
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Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:45 pm

No it wouldn't work. you wouldn't get decent HNL trained refs and more importantly ...you wouldn't get proper insurance ... a league like that attracts the dregs of the hockey world. It is from a hockey era... now gratefully gone ....
By the way ... HNL did everything it could to keep hockey alive in central but the problems couldn'ty be overcome ....HNL wanted a province wide league but not a league that was a bidding wore.... That's what happened in central . Too much money and money for too many players...Overpay third liners and the next thing there will only be a couple of teams left ....and no other teams looking to play in a league with them ... Just my opinion ....

Flyer24
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Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:38 am

We have definitely watched some of the best levels of Senior hockey in this area since Gander joined back in 2012 I think it was. Those first 3-4 years the hockey was fast, very skilled, and entertaining. The Imports were great but so were the locals who came home to play. You cannot compare the caliber to pro hockey, but it was a close as there will ever be in NL. Over the past few years, the games have gotten slower, with less skilled players able to 'keep up' and as a result attendance has declined.

I have no idea what HNL has or has not done, but I know it's terrible that there's no REAL senior hockey in NL anymore. The west coast has 3 teams, only 2 of which are competitive. The Central league is dead. And the East Coast League seems to have 3-4 teams that are capable of winning. Just off the top of my head, I can think of a dozen players that are currently NOT playing Senior Hockey in NL now who would make any team's top line. Says it all about the caliber of the league.

Anyway, enjoy the winter and I plan on catching a game out West and well as East as I simply love watching hockey. Just wish it was the Flyers.

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puckit
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Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:41 am

NLHockeyInsider3 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:19 pm
What a joke these people are. To say that any senior hockey played in this province since the 80’s is at a caliber close to even ECHL or get this the AHL ( a top five league in the world) is just asinine. You guys can blame everyone else all you want for having no hockey in central this season but at the end of the day the blame sits squarely on the Cataracts and Flyers. It’s easy to play the blame game, enjoy your Intermediate league. I’ll enjoy the ECSHL playoffs, SJJHL playoffs; which by the way seen their final draw better than the Herder games out in central last season (true hockey fans eh?), and hopefully another long playoff run by the Growlers.
What a joke you are! This is the reason I stopped posting several years ago. Impossible to have an intelligent unbiased discussion related to local hockey because of people like you. You cannot see the forest for the trees, just resentful of the fact that there was quality hockey being played west of the Avalon. So now, you can go blow your own little horn all you like. You seem to get a lot of pleasure out of it. This is my last response to anything you post. I have presented the truth as I, and many others, see it. I also encourage other members of this site to stop replying to your vitriol as it does nothing but stoke your own ego. Goodbye and Go Growlers !
If at first you don't succeed....PUCKIT!

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