Newfoundland Hockey Talk

She's over boys she's over. Not enough players for a 4 team league without imports. They killed it. Congratulations ! Cataracts go out with a bang. Flyers and Caribous with a whimper.

I see your point ,Senior fan.
And, what Hockey NL has been failing to 'see' over the last five years , at least, is that Junior hockey off the Avalon has been under continuous duress - with that developmental level out here " in the woods" just about now non existent. There is just no resource of young hockey players to draw from out here "off the Avalon" - to play in any Leagues out here: - Junior or Senior!
To run a half decent Senior League off the Avalon, as the CWSHL has had to deal with, 70 % of the players have to travel from St.John's/Avalon. All of that costs money in travel, accommodation and salary. -(And salary, by the way, is not the most significant cost factor among the three operating costs of "travel, accommodation and salary" when needing such " local" imports from St.John's/Avalon area to be able to operate). The TWO only mainland imports that the three teams in last year's CWSHL were permitted by HNL to use make up only a fraction of CWSHL teams' operating costs - (Rosters comprise 25 players, including two goalies) But, HNL could never see that.
Th AESHL has all the players it needs living right there on the Avalon to run a League right on their doorstep: No travel costs worthwhile,: No accommodation costs like we have out here with spread out communities; And, no salaries, so Joe Maynard "declares".
The CWSHL cannot operate with area locals - they just do not exist out here : - Not in GFW, Gander, or Clarenville. And, they don't exist either for Corner Brook, Stephenville, Deer Lake or any other community "off the Avalon" who might want to run fan-drawing Senior hockey entertainment.

So. the blind mouse of an institution HNL can finally have their wish of eradicating Senior hockey off the Avalon.
It will be pretty well impossible now to have any decent Senior hockey out here. The players - mainland or otherwise - are not here. And, the costs don't go down much trying to run decent Senior hockey out here with St.John's/Avalon players. The AESHL have no such very real problem that we have always had of accessing players.

You are absolutely positively 100% correct. The realities of running a league around St. John's simply don't apply in rural Newfoundland. Failure to understand that has led to do many bad decisions. I've been saying for years that complaints about "expensive" imports were so wrong minded. You are right In saying that the cost of imports is really a minute part of the overall team budgets, especially when considering the use of points for flights. In order for Sr Hockey to survive off the Avalon teams need to be able to add more imports not get rid of them. There ARE NOT enough locals living in these communities so more players will have to enticed to travel from St. John's to fill the rosters and with no imports those locals see their value increasing and will insist on more money. Overall costs will go up, not down. In the meantime no imports means fewer fans. No savings. Reduced bottom line. Of course it won't come to that because the backwards decisions of those in charge have already killed the league.

It is the executive members from the teams that are saying that they are burnt out from fundraising and need to cut costs. One of the costs they are referencing is the cost of paid players. If teams off the Avalon are going to exist the cost associated with running the teams need to be reduced. Imagine how hard it must be not to have a population large enough to support a team whose expenses are running out of control. If there aren’t players enough to build a team then there are also not enough people to continue massive fundraising in parts of the province where the population is declining

The issue is not so simple as reducing costs related to "paid players".
The problem that teams off the Avalon have is that there are 'no players' i.e. not enough players of a caliber to ice a Senior hockey level team. Only about 20 % of the players needed for a 25 player roster live in the areas of the half dozen or so "hockey centres" off the Avalon. Thus, 75 - 80% of the players must come from the Avalon. You won't find that number of half decent players without enough pay to entice those players. They have to travel, spend three days almost of a weekend in the process ( a lot of their time) etc...
This not just a couple of hours to play a game. There is a big commitment and not an easy task to make work in the far flung areas of NL that exist off the Avalon that might want Senior hockey. The whole project off the Avalon requires a lot of work and commitment by volunteers AND hockey players travelling long distances. It always has been a challenge from the first days of the Corner Brook Royals, Buchans Miners, GF Andcos, Gander Flyers etc!!

StevieY wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:17 pm

It is the executive members from the teams that are saying that they are burnt out from fundraising and need to cut costs. One of the costs they are referencing is the cost of paid players. If teams off the Avalon are going to exist the cost associated with running the teams need to be reduced. Imagine how hard it must be not to have a population large enough to support a team whose expenses are running out of control. If there aren’t players enough to build a team then there are also not enough people to continue massive fundraising in parts of the province where the population is declining

"Expenses are running out of control".
I don't know about the other teams but the Cataracts have in fact drastically reduced their operating budget over the past few years and have instituted cuts to players salaries going back at least three years. Not aware of any of the current Cataracts executive complaining of burnout from fundraising. I know that some might be fed up with all the BS they've had to deal with lately though.

There is no burnout in the Cats fundraising... it has continued in its usual solid fashion throughout the 'summer' - since hockey ended ,( now over three months ago)!
There is no reason not to think that Cats are in the black and ready for whatever comes.
However,the big concern must be - even the most casual observer would have to ask after the way last season's CWSHL schedule ended - What about the financial stability of Gander since last season they suddenly 'shut down' before they could finish their remaining late season games....Also, a three team set up that the CWSHL was left with last year is a not viable - scheduling is erratic,( teams get long lapses of time with no Home games - just a reality with only three teams). There are required weekends off because of only having three teams. Fan interest is stressed because of uneven scheduling and particularly gaps in Home games... There are also Home-Home weekends that must be scheduled because of uneven number of teams. This adds additional costs for teams and also disrupts a continuity in fan attendance with only one game on some weekends - sometimes that game being only a Sunday game.
The end consequence of the 'forced' experience of last season with only a three team set up is clear - Inherent, forced "bad" scheduling directly impacts keeping fan interest, which in turn impacts gate money,(which is an important factor in basic financial stability - one of the big issues for the Gander Flyers last season). A fourth team is definitely a "MUST" in order to allow scheduling to get back to some normalcy for keeping the fans interested with regular patterns in games.

And , on the financial 'front', there has been no public indication whatsoever, since season's end, that any team other than the Cats team - of the current League three teams - is financially stable. Gander at the end of last season clearly was not stable. Maybe Clarenville came out at the "end" ok because of Herder revenue from that Playoff. But they had publicly acknowledged financial woes before last season even began.

Add in HNL's final push to get rid of all Imports in Senior hockey for the upcoming year, then you have maybe the "last straw" - with the other issues that already existed last season - to break the proverbial "camel's back" and put in very serious doubt the survival of the CWSHL and its competitive version of Senior hockey off the Avalon!
HNL's declarations that they wanted to "grow Senior hockey all across the province" is clearly an empty sham. Senior hockey "off the Avalon" is on the precipice directly because HNL has failed its duty to find joint ways to work with - and not against - Senior hockey efforts off the Avalon. And, but one of numerous components of that failure is the blind eye they 'turned' in not seeing the fundamental fact that no hockey town/city outside of the Avalon has any adequate source of even half a team of the required number of decent Senior hockey players to ice a team that fans will want to watch out here in such a far-flung province.

I see in a Doug Matheson tweet yesterday -(the Allan Cup national administrator) - that both the Clarenville Caribous and GFW Cataracts have filed formal SeniorAAA registration for entry in the 2018 Allan Cup next April 2018.
The 2017 Herder Champion CeeBees have not filed - not interested I guess?
Interesting that there may not even be Senior( A) hockey off the Avalon this year - with Gander having been in "season-ending" financial crisis last Spring, and no sign of the 4th team in the CWSHL that all three teams from last season stated was necessary for survival of the CWSHL.

And he just posted a list of Official AAA Teams......http://www.allancup.ca/SeniorAAATeams17-18.htm

aseyeseesit wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:09 am

I see in a Doug Matheson tweet yesterday -(the Allan Cup national administrator) - that both the Clarenville Caribous and GFW Cataracts have filed formal SeniorAAA registration for entry in the 2018 Allan Cup next April 2018.
The 2017 Herder Champion CeeBees have not filed - not interested I guess?
Interesting that there may not even be Senior( A) hockey off the Avalon this year - with Gander having been in "season-ending" financial crisis last Spring, and no sign of the 4th team in the CWSHL that all three teams from last season stated was necessary for survival of the CWSHL.

Rumours say CeeBees might have a team but not a league to play in...