WCSHL’s Future in Doubt

By
Updated: February 12, 2020

Newfoundland Hockey Talk has learned that there is considerable doubt surrounding the future of the West Coast Senior Hockey League.

Readers may find this strange given the league’s apparent success, fan support and community involvement that people see in public.  However, we have learned that there are major issues happening behind the scenes with the potential to put an end to league operations.

Troubles for the league began on January 10, 2020 stemming from an on-ice incident involving the Deer Lake Red Wings Ryan Penney.  Penney was assessed a 2-minute interference penalty, a 5-minute major for slashing and a 10-minute misconduct for an incident against the Corner Brook Royals Brandon Hynes.

Hynes would have to leave the game.  He was diagnosed with a broken hand.  This ended his season and sidelined a player who is arguably the best player in the league.

Penney missed one game as a result of the incident.  Ultimately, Penney would be assessed a 3-game suspension under the WCSHL disciplinary protocol and would have been available to the Deer Lake Red Wings come playoffs.

This is where the future of the WCSHL begins to become murky.

After putting considerable effort into developing a memorandum of understanding surrounding player discipline designed to protect player safety, all three teams signed off on the protocol and appointed a representative to the disciplinary committee.

Deer Lake effectively circumvented this process and appealed the suspension to Hockey NL and senior council.  It took a just 1.5 days for HNL to convene a meeting to discuss the Penney incident.  This short time frame is unprecedented for anyone who has followed senior hockey in Newfoundland and Labrador.  HNL has consistently dragged its heels in making any such decision and given that the league has its own disciplinary protocol in place, would *usually* deny the appeal because it was a “league issue”.

HNL determined the 1-game missed by Penney was sufficient for the incident.

Sources have told Newfoundland Hockey Talk that the members of WCSHL’s disciplinary committee are disgusted with this decision.  In fact, the committee members have reportedly openly expressed their displeasure with the Deer Lake Red Wings for taking this to HNL and there is some indication these members, including the one representing Deer Lake, are now considering resigning.

Being dissatisfied with the 1-game suspension, the Corner Brook Royals filed its own appeal with HNL only to have that denied.

Newfoundland Hockey Talk have learned there is considerable push back occurring behind the scenes.

There are many alleging the Deer Lake Red Wings and HNL orchestrated the reduced suspension to give an advantage to the Red Wing organization.  Some who have indicated this this is clearly serving personal agendas.  Others have indicated that this also supports suspicions that attempts of alleged intimidation of the on-ice officials.

This fits into what other sources have revealed to Newfoundland Hockey Talk.  Apparently, some on-ice officials have raised concerns to the league of feeling intimidated when calling games in which Deer Lake has played.  There are fears that Deer Lake’s contravention of league protocols and HNL’s decision undermines their ability to perform their jobs on the ice.  Some officials have apparently described the on-ice environment as a “free for all” where some high-profile players now feel they are untouchable for their on-ice antics.

Some players have expressed similar concerns and have pointed this situation involving the Deer Lake Red Wings as a “prime example of favoritism”.

In speaking to Newfoundland Hockey Talk, some players indicated that there have been multiple incidents similar to the Penney incident.  Players are concerned for their safety and now feel the league is powerless to protect their interests.  Some players have said that certain penalties are ignored and that “dangerous actions of some players” are allowed to continue game after game without consequence.

The ripple effect this is sending behind the scenes presents a clear and present danger to the future of the WCSHL.

The Corner Brook Royals organization is extremely upset.  The organization is questioning why HNL “stuck its nose into league business” when the league had dealt with an issue that was in the process designed to protect players and guarantee their safety.  They feel that HNL’s involvement was inappropriate and that Deer Lake showed its true colours in bypassing the league and appealing directly to HNL.

Sources close to the team have indicated that the executive have contemplated resigning.

This could potentially mean an early end to the West Coast Senior Hockey League.

Our sources have indicated that there is a consensus behind the scenes that HNL’s actions follows a pattern of bias towards the WCSHL in general.

Hockey NL and its senior council have consistently ignored the great things taking place within the West Coast Senior Hockey League and within the Corner Brook Royals.  The creation of the WCSHL grew from an idea put forward by many now involved within the Royals organization.  HNL had apparently expressed major skepticism over whether the WCSHL would survive.  However, with several successful seasons under its belt, HNL has never acknowledge the league’s successes, including the vast sums of money the Corner Brook Royals have donated to charities and community groups throughout the reason.

There is no denying the dedication shown by the Corner Brook Royals organization.  Players, coaches, organizers, volunteers and management feel they have built a great organization and are proud of what they have accomplished.  HNL should be embracing this format and use it as a pattern to promote senior hockey throughout the province and stop with the favoritism and poor judgement it has continually shown when it comes to senior hockey.

While this situation is very volatile, here at Newfoundland Hockey Talk we feel there is a high likelihood that calmer heads will prevail and that the WCSHL will continue through the upcoming playoffs out of respect for its fans.

However, the future of the WCSHL is now looking very bleak.

Correction: The article had previously indicated that a match penalty was assessed.  This was incorrect.  Penney missed one game.  Newfoundland Hockey Talk apologizes for this error.

99 Comments

  1. Todd

    February 12, 2020 at 8:30 pm

    This article is strongly true with regards to Deer Lake getting the good end of the stick every time! Ive watched this league for 3 years and going and ive seen some things that would want a fan to keep coming back, to a fan never paying 8 dollars again.. I seen the Penney and Hynes incident! It was a big charge and a dirty hit from penney and then an unnecessary slash which led to injury and i agree fully on the 3 game suspension. Penney is a very knowledgeable player and has played high level hockey and sometimes forgets that players are out there for free. At the end of the day penney has his moments like everyone else but the past 2 years he has done some very predatory things that shouldnt be in hockey. Some other things that aren’t being talked about enough is players like Ian Richardson who is 300 lbs and can barely skate going out there trying to injure and intimidate players 18 years old. This guy has no place to play in anything but a game of shinny hockey with a bunch of old timers and if he keeps doing this shit and the league or HNL doesnt step in, Ultimately i think he will be the one injuried at the end of the day.. Also this Red wings team throwing 300-400 dollars at players that played in CWSHL (Simms,Mckay,Penney,Clarke) its got to stop, Andy and deer lake ruined the league years ago and their going to ruin it again. HNL and the league have to step in at some point for the sake of the league and player safety

    • NL Hockey Talk

      February 12, 2020 at 9:02 pm

      This is interesting, especially the comment that the Red Wings are paying players. That goes directly against the rules of the league.

    • quinton

      February 13, 2020 at 10:50 am

      Does the west coast compete for the herder? That’s what its all about… If they dont its just a money grab and might as well if they join a beer league

      • NL Hockey Talk

        February 13, 2020 at 11:36 am

        No, they do not compete for the Herder. There was some talk of this but I’m not sure it ever moved beyond the “talk” stage.

  2. Ryan

    February 12, 2020 at 9:38 pm

    Who writes this garbage?

    • NL Hockey Talk

      February 12, 2020 at 10:06 pm

      There’s nothing garbage about it. The truth might be difficult for some, but the sources that provided the information are well connected to teams, known to be involved with the organizations (including the Wings) and trying to salvage the league.

  3. Todd

    February 12, 2020 at 9:42 pm

    it is quite interesting isn’t it.. Ive heard rumors of these players bragging and joking to other teams players about how they wont drive down the highway to corner brook without a e-Transfer of their pay first. Players childcare getting paid for to avoid league picking up on it.. Ive seen and heard it all being around all 3 rinks the past few years! Simms,Mckay came from CWSHL lastyear where they made 300/500 bucks per game and opted to stay in deer lake because “their handing out more cash”… Deer lake cant face the facts that in order to put a trophy of a non paid league they have to pay out money to players.. Its pathetic

  4. Todd

    February 12, 2020 at 9:45 pm

    Not to mention deer lake didnt ice a team lastyear after they were caught red handed paying players and were under a microscope this past year and couldnt ice a competitive team without paying those players

  5. steve

    February 12, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    Here’s my Take on this article

    Im from Mount Pearl and i have relatives in Corner Brook and Deer Lake, also some long time friends from PAB area! I am not bias to any certain team as i support all teams and leagues throughout the province. In saying that you do hear some common concerns from all teams throughout the province. The common thing i hear from all cities that have teams in that league is that it seems to be being ran by a different person every other week. Since that league started theres been countless executive changes and presidents. This league came about 3 years ago and I remember the ad in the paper from Deer Lakes president Andy “ West league can go without paid players”
    Funny thing is he was the president the year deer lake was caught paying simms and penney. Andy has proven he cant help himself by ruining 2 separate leagues now. On to the paying players this year, Everyone team has said that Deer lake is paying Penney,Simms and Mckay and those players don’t hide it when their out in public talking about it.

    I watched one game this year and it was some good local hockey, Some hits and lots of scoring! Yes this Richardson guy has no place in this league because he’s god awful but if this guy takes shots at certain players, Why dont other teams get a guy like that and go out and take out Deer lakes stud players. I know farewell if you put brad lewis or brad rice on PAB or CB, You wouldnt see Penney or Richardson being dirty and taking charges at guys. Teams can complain about it but its also in their hands to change it. no you never want to see the game go to that dirt but sometimes thats what it takes. Overall in conclusion this league wont be around next year for one reason. Andy and the Deer Lake Red Wings. cheers from the east coast

  6. Brad

    February 12, 2020 at 10:15 pm

    Ive lived in deer lake since 1974. I watch every game to go out and have a plate of fries and support both teams, Obviously i want my hometown to win. I dont mind saying it, Deer lake can hate me if they want. My nephew is close to the team and he has said that those 3 or 4 players are being paid x amount of dollars per weekend and that certain coaches and executive members do have certain players out there to stir the pot and cause shit. Ive watched senior hockey here for 20 years, It the way deer lake always was and it wont change. People say these articles are bias well im from deer lake and go for deer lake and im agreeing with these articles because sadly their true

  7. Mike

    February 12, 2020 at 10:26 pm

    Very disappointed in this article. Many things stated are completely false. For example, You say Penney received a match penalty which wasn’t the case and even the screen shot of the game sheet collaborates that.

    Did you know this disciplinary committee was made up of a representative of each team and the length of suspension decided upon was put to a vote with DL being out voted 2-1? Deer Lake went to HNL to appeal. HNL didn’t stick their nose in the leagues business deer lake went to them.

    Here’s another fact you didn’t know about your beloved royals. Did you know the royals were caught scheming with the ECSHL this summer over plans to cut out the CWSHL so that the herder could be East vs West. You see corner brook had their season all planned out, they were getting Brandon hynes and nobody was going to touch them this year they had herder in there sights. Now Brandon is out for the year, their stud d man gillard quit on them because of there antics and their promising season is in a downward spiral and all they’re gonna do is sulk.

    The biggest laugh from this article though was, “ HNL should be embracing this format and use it as a pattern to promote senior hockey throughout the province”… the corner brook royals are going to tell HNL, ECSHL, the grand falls cataracts who won 5 herders and an Allan cup they have the answer. Haha come on.

    • NL Hockey Talk

      February 12, 2020 at 10:39 pm

      The article was written from notes & information provided & yes, you are correct with respect to the match penalty. That is an error & will be corrected. The notes from the interviews indicated the call on the ice should have been a match penalty. As for the HNL embracing the format of this league, perhaps you should look at the state of senior hockey as a whole within the province. GFW/Gander have no teams. There is no league in central. Look at the drama in the ECSHL that led to the delay in starting the season & look at their dismal fan turnout. The formula within the WCSHL appears to be working. This is not about the “Royals” or as you put it “beloved Royals” but is about assault on players, abuse of officials, ignoring league protocol, the interference of HNL (it should have been kicked back & dealt with in the league) & about the survival of senior hockey here. Have a great evening & thanks for pointing out the error. That has been corrected.

  8. Mike

    February 12, 2020 at 10:51 pm

    And this isn’t drama? The WCSHL has gone from 4 teams to 3 with pab hanging by a thread in 3 years! Doesn’t sound like a good formula to me!

    • NL Hockey Talk

      February 12, 2020 at 10:58 pm

      Senior hockey as a whole is fragile and it is incidents like this that’s simply not good for the game or the survival of the current league. As for this formula working – yes, the formula is working. Utilizing local players from within limited geographical areas, not playing players (well, we’re seeing that’s not the case through comments on this thread), keeping expenses down, not utilizing imports. Yes, PAB is hanging on by a thread. Yes, S’ville dropped out this year, as did DL previously. You either follow the things that are working, expand the league provincially with maybe an east/central/west division. Will their be growing pains. Yes, we’re seeing them but overall the formula/concept is working.

  9. Shannon

    February 12, 2020 at 10:55 pm

    This story is all about players safety this was put out in the public last year too and one person was suspended for 15 days for it but this year that person isn’t part of any team or the league so he can’t be suspended and that is fact because I am that guy thanks

    • NL Hockey Talk

      February 12, 2020 at 11:02 pm

      Yes, you are correct. This is ultimately about player safety & the backroom politics that pops up every season regardless of the league being discussed. It’s also about the general perception that HNL is not doing senior hockey justice in how it does things at the moment. There are many great players, coaches, organizers, volunteers and unsung heros behind the scenes. The old antics from the last 40 plus years of senior hockey has to stop if there is going to be any form of the game left to enjoy on those cold winter nights.

  10. John

    February 12, 2020 at 10:58 pm

    Mike, Your claims maybe somewhat true but the reason sville dropped out of the league was do to lack of player interest to do playing against paid players and that they could no longer financially stay afloat. Why is pab hanging by a thread becauss players dont want to make the drive to pab to play against PAID red wings and be blown out 10-0. The common issue is deer lake paying players and other teams not. Take your bullshit somewhere else! Take deer lake paid players away or take the pay cheque’s away from those players and see where deer lake goes. Headline in the paper would be “lack of competitiveness makes red wings fold”.

  11. Mike

    February 12, 2020 at 11:02 pm

    Another fact for ya… hynes hand was not broken, his thumb was dislocated. Big difference. Without the facts this article is at all not credible

    • NL Hockey Talk

      February 12, 2020 at 11:04 pm

      According to sources from the Royals organization, his hand was broken. You’re splitting hairs. Are you condoning the actions on the ice? Are you saying the fears of players (and their families) isn’t real?

  12. Mike

    February 12, 2020 at 11:04 pm

    Ask me next year if this formula is working

    • NL Hockey Talk

      February 12, 2020 at 11:11 pm

      As fans, we can hope there is hockey next year but look at this past season. It is not the formula that’s causing problems, it’s the old boys club & backroom deals that will sideline the game. ECSHL – Delayed start this season because of hockey politics. CWSHL – Folded because of hockey politics. WCSHL – In danger of not being around because of hockey politics. Hockey isn’t dying for lack of fan support – it’s all the other items occurring behind the scenes.

  13. Cecil

    February 12, 2020 at 11:07 pm

    Where’s the shout out for the Royals players who have caused deliberate injuries? Pretty one sided article. It’s senior hockey not pee wee and the article would never have been written if Corner Brook was the more physical team. Lots of shinny hockey around for the sooky babies.

    • NL Hockey Talk

      February 12, 2020 at 11:14 pm

      Really? You are condoning the on-ice actions? Yes, hockey is a physical game but calling players “sooky babies” for fearing injury is mindless.

      • Cecil

        February 13, 2020 at 9:01 am

        So you think it’s okay when Royals players injure other team’s players but it’s not okay when The Redwings do it. What about the fella who just got injured from PAB who was off work because a Royal injured him? Or the Redwing who got his teeth deliberately knocked out by a Royal player with his stick? Is it okay in those instances? If you’re going to preach player safety why are you only concerned about Deer Lake players being physical? Like I said, one sided. The Corner Brook players can be just as greasy, saucy and unpredictable. The Redwings just have the more physical team and the Royals can’t stand it. I’d love to see what Brandon Hynes was getting paid.

        • NL Hockey Talk

          February 13, 2020 at 10:06 am

          Cecil, you’re out of touch with reality. The safety protocol & disciplinary processes put in place was meant to avoid this. Just because incidents might have happened in previous years, that is in no way justification for the incident that happened, nor is it okay for a team, whether it’s DL, CB or PAB to circumvent a process developed and agreed upon by ALL teams. This isn’t a “revenge” game – it’s a sporting event. Yes, hockey is a contact sport but nowhere does it say “Eye for an Eye”.

        • Bernie

          February 13, 2020 at 12:02 pm

          What PAB player was off work because of a dirty play?

        • bernie

          February 13, 2020 at 12:09 pm

          What Mariners player are you referring to that was injured because of a play by a royals player

          • Bob

            February 13, 2020 at 3:52 pm

            Their Captain… Parsons. Missed a week of work by a blatant sucker punch, while another player removed his helmet (yes that guy got a Gross).

          • Adam

            February 13, 2020 at 5:08 pm

            Not sure have all the facts or even seen what happened.. My brother plays on port aux basques! Parsons went after the royals player for a play that happened earlier, Both guys feel down.. when they got up (both without helmets) not saying it was right for other player to flick is helmet off but the referee let them go, Spirtited fight with both guys getting their licks in.. Both guys tapped eachother on the head at the end of the scrap.. further more i was told both players reached out after the game to make sure both were okay. Thats the way it’s supposed to be done! Parsons has seen and played enough hockey to know it was a good fight and pay respects to other player, Thats why he’s the captain! So not quite sure where you seen or got the information of a sucker punch!

          • B

            February 13, 2020 at 5:51 pm

            Bob, that was 2 men who both had a fight, both players dropped the gloves, it was a fair fight. It’s the players own risk when they drop the gloves you don’t know how it’s going to end up. Parrsons unfortunately got the short end of the stick but that’s the chance he took we get faught. He was actually the one to the start the fight as he got the instigator on the play. No one did anyone dirty in that play. That was a clean hockey fight that they both agreed too

          • Bob

            February 13, 2020 at 6:21 pm

            That’s your interpretation, but not from where I sat about 15 feet away. It started with a guy getting cross-checked into an open gate. That’s the kind of BS that this whole article is about. Guys are losing paycheques because of that kind of garbage. And I don’t know about you, but I can’t afford to lose any of my cheques.

        • adam

          February 13, 2020 at 7:05 pm

          Fair enough bob, The guy did get crossed checked into the bench which was caused by that player throwing his elbow at a playing going on to the ice and him flopping the whole game like some hit him with a bus. But that player answered the bell and went with a much bigger and experienced fighter and stood in there. he answered his calling like a man.

  14. Mike

    February 12, 2020 at 11:08 pm

    A slash is a part of hockey. No I don’t condone any attempt to injure but it’s a rough sport where tempers flare up. If the players are scared, stay home. While we’re on the attempt to injure subject how come no talk about the 2 royals players attempts 2 years ago on red wings players or the suspended royals players who raced down the hall way to the wings dressing room, one guy throwing a stick. Maybe it’s time you start interviewing all teams if you want all the facts bud.

    • NL Hockey Talk

      February 12, 2020 at 11:18 pm

      Again you’re justifying the on-ice actions as “well, they did it to us 2 years ago” and that a slash is a part of hockey/hockey is a rough game. As for the other incidents – those didn’t fill our inbox with emails/messages like this current one has. You’re more than welcome to write & submit an article at anytime.

      • Cecil

        February 13, 2020 at 9:21 am

        Other incidences didn’t fill your inbox with messages and emails because it’s only the younger crowd and the new generation of hockey parents who would write sooky articles or cry to HNL that the game is too physical. You have a wicked double standard attitude going on. You’re implying it’s okay for a CB Royal to go out and injure someone deliberately but if a Redwing is physical the entire league is doomed. Back in the day if someone smashed you across the face and knocked your teeth out you would settle things on the ice next time, then everyone would move on. Now the alternative is writing a complaint instead of being held accountable. In terms of Brandon Hynes getting hurt it was his choice to play senior. There’s always a risk of being hurt in any senior league. Are you suggesting senior hockey should be treated more like high school hockey and take the fighting and hitting out? The league isn’t doomed because there’s a couple physical Redwings. It’s doomed for the same reason it always fails. Our population doesn’t support a sophisticated senior league.

        • NL Hockey Talk

          February 13, 2020 at 10:07 am

          Where do the article say that it’s okay for anyone to injure anyone? Your bias is showing through. This is about player safety, about a team deciding to give itself an advantage and circumvent mechanisms that ALL teams agreed to. Nothing more nothing less. It’s this type of mentality that doesn’t belong on the ice or in the stands.

          • Cecil

            February 13, 2020 at 12:09 pm

            The article doesn’t state that it’s okay for anyone to injure anyone but undoubtedly implies that the Deer Lake Redwings and their players are at fault for anything and everything. It reads like we should blame one team for everything wrong in the league when there are multiple factors. I am totally biased that’s obvious. But I didn’t write the article and I think it would hold a lot more worth if it didn’t praise one team over another. Perhaps if it included moments where Corner Brook players (or PAB) also engaged in physical play the favouritism wouldn’t be so evident. Then again, there’s an entire paragraph praising the Royals organization so which one of us is undeniably biased? I’m just the only one who can admit it that’s all. The league was boring as hell without Deer Lake competing but that’s the kind of hockey preferred I guess!

          • NL Hockey Talk

            February 13, 2020 at 12:17 pm

            This isn’t about praising one team over another. It is using the current situation that has caused a great deal of angst behind the scenes with players on multiple teams raising concerns over their safety, feeling like they have their heads on a swivel on the ice etc. It is about a league that attempted to put in provisions to protect player’s safety & all teams agreeing to those provisions. One team opted to bypass those provisions & give themselves a clear advantage while another team has lost arguably the best player in the entire league from their roster for the entire season. It is about HNL entertaining this latest “appeal” when they should have kicked it back to the league who had already dealt with the issue through their own disciplinary process (which Deer Lake had helped developed and agreed to use preseason). Some players on all three teams fear they have zero protection, they don’t like the antics they see & they feel the league has not done enough. It comes down to lack of trust now on many different levels – that is what will ultimately impact the future of the league.

  15. John

    February 12, 2020 at 11:09 pm

    Ill answer that mike. No this formula wont work next year because this league is done after this year if it even makes it through to the end of this year. Why?? players that are in school and working for their families aren’t interested in playing against a select few players that total are are making more to play hockey in deer lake then a tim hortons employee yearly. Have a fun non paid league without clowns and maybe it will work

    • NL Hockey Talk

      February 12, 2020 at 11:26 pm

      That was a very common thread in some of the messages we received. It wasn’t only players expressing concerns to their teams, family members were also concerned. Hockey has evolved everywhere to a more skilled game not the goonish style of the past. The occasional tilt will still draw cheers but the game of the past is no longer the game of the future. Player safety has to be front & centre.

  16. John

    February 12, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    What caused that hall way incident 2 years ago! A 30 odd year old 300 pound bell head going after a 18 year old kid.

  17. Mike

    February 12, 2020 at 11:23 pm

    John,

    Because the 18 year old slash his teeth out the game before. Again KNOW THE FACTS.

    NL hockey talk.

    Your inboxes didn’t fill with those because dl did their talking on the score sheet.

    I dare you to interview DL. You’ll be shocked what you will find out about how cb runs this league.

    • John

      February 12, 2020 at 11:31 pm

      Mike,

      That 18 year old took his teeth out because Richardson was doing predatory things all finals that year.. i dont have to interview deer lake. My sons bestfriend plays on deer lake. Ive heard lots about money being paid to simms,penney,mckay and the coaches.. younger players being felt uncomfortable with some of the things that are being done in the dressing room after games and practices. You havent got to tell me buddy

      • Mike

        February 12, 2020 at 11:40 pm

        Maybe the 18 year old should drop the gloves instead of a coward move of slashing someone’s face and then turtleling.

        Your sons best friend? Cool. Do you really think if those players are getting paid and Brandon Hynes is not? Lol the young guys feel uncomfortable, what does that even mean?

        • NL Hockey Talk

          February 12, 2020 at 11:49 pm

          The disciplinary process put in place THIS season was meant to curtail these types of incidents & provide the league the internal mechanism to deal with discipline. It was agreed upon by all teams & signed off on by all teams. This current incident has obviously struck a chord in many, including players and officials and highlights a much larger issue of things that are allegedly occurring behind the scenes.

          • Cecil

            February 13, 2020 at 9:28 am

            The ‘disciplinary process’ should apply to all players on all teams if that’s the direction the league is taking. The article and comments are all centred around punishing Deer Lake players. I’ve seen tons of cases where Corner Brook and Port Aux Basque players have been just as violent?

          • NL Hockey Talk

            February 13, 2020 at 10:09 am

            This is your bias coming through. Nothing more, nothing less.

      • Cecil

        February 13, 2020 at 9:38 am

        The “predatory things” you’re suggesting include only some harmless hitting and roughing. No one was ever injured or physically hurt. The only thing predatory in nature was the 18 year old chopping a player in the mouth with his stick purposely. I don’t think roughing justified a smash in the mouth or the massive dentist bill he likely had.

        • B

          February 13, 2020 at 12:37 pm

          So beating that said 18 year old with a helmet over the head is a clean hockey play? 180lbs 18 year old vs 300+ lbs 30 year, i would use my stick as protection too.

          • Cecil

            February 13, 2020 at 2:08 pm

            Two adults both playing senior hockey. Both at their own risk. Both by choice. If I remember correctly (rhetorical) he beat him over the head with the helmet after the 18 year old knocked his teeth out. The kid isn’t protecting himself if he’s the one who made the first dirty move (yes both dirty moves). The kid got a dirty penalty in a previous game too. I don’t know about you but if someone knocked my teeth out I’d beat them silly too. This isn’t the first time there’s been different sized players on the ice – most times a smaller fella knows better than to pull something dirty on a bigger fella unless willing to face the reaction. I was a smaller player I stayed away from bigger guys.

    • NL Hockey Talk

      February 12, 2020 at 11:32 pm

      Again, the invitation is always there to submit a story, to write an article and the team is free to reach out for an interview. While this article involves DL & CB, this could be Team X & Team Y because ultimately it is about player safety, intimidation, a team bypassing league protocols to gain an advantage etc. etc. etc. and the very real fact there may be no hockey next year given the emotions involved at this moment.

  18. Charles

    February 12, 2020 at 11:27 pm

    A few comments:
    – The league adopted the principle of non-player payment as an important part of a financial model that would make the league viable and sustainable over many years. All teams accepted this principle. The league does not have the resources to conduct team financial audits, and it only works if the teams have the honour and integrity to comply with it.
    – This year, the league and its teams endorsed increased disciplinary measures as part of a greater emphasis on player safety, to protect players giving freely of their time, and to attract players to the league.
    – Despite the commitments made by teams to nonpayment, there is a considerable amount of anecdotal evidence that DL are paying players this year. This was also the case two years ago when DL were in the league.
    – I’ve seen most games this year, including the vicious slash by Ryan Penney on Brandon Hynes that effectively ended Hynes season. If the league’s disciplinary committee, referring to the new discipline guidelines accepted by all teams at the outset, judged three games to be appropriate (many would argue it warranted more), that should have been the end of it. Why DL would do an end run around the discipline committee and the league executive for a rapid appeal to HNL, not to mention why HNL would subsequently reject the Royals’ appeal, is beyond belief.
    – I can understand the depth of frustration that must be felt by CB and PAB executives. For some reason, DL seems to attach more value to winning the league this year, than to creating a viable and sustainable league for years to come. That will only be achieved if their is a high level of trust and confidence between the three teams and within the league executive. With DL’s apparent failure to honour its commitments, with its recent end run around the league’s discipline committee, with its chronic issues around player payment, and with its history of issues in prior years, that essential trust must be at dangerously low levels right now.
    – Given the recent end run to neuter the discipline committee, it would be entirely appropriate if committee members resigned, including the DL representative.
    – And given the persistent nature of the issues and erosion of trust, it’s also appropriate for all teams, but especially PAB and CB, to question their continued involvement, to ask whether they have partners in the other teams who share the same goal of a sustainable league, and whether it’s reached a point where it’s more effort and aggravation than it’s worth.

    That would be unfortunate for the players, fans and communities. But at some point, the three teams have to either get on on the same page or accept that it isn’t going to be successful.

    • NL Hockey Talk

      February 12, 2020 at 11:34 pm

      Many great points. Thank you for providing some valuable insight.

  19. Shannon

    February 12, 2020 at 11:30 pm

    Great for people to comment but I main thing is player safety they all should not be paid players but we know the talk on that but at the end of the day a lot of them players got family’s and jobs so the league has to be cleaned up .someone from hockey nl said that last year but when you try to clean it up they change it.another fact pab took six weeks last year to get a decision but dl takes three days see the difference

    • NL Hockey Talk

      February 12, 2020 at 11:38 pm

      Thanks Shannon. Appreciate the insight and you are correct. Safety has to be front and centre and hearing people say “it’s part of the game” & calling people “sooks” leaves many fans just tired of the BS that continues year after year.

  20. Mike L

    February 13, 2020 at 8:46 am

    As an executive member of the Corner Brook Royals, let me state unequivocally, the Royals team does not pay players for playing games in the WCSHL. The only compensation players receive is an equipment allowance (goes nowhere near paying full cost for equipment), replacement of broken hockey sticks up to a number of four (but only if broken), food and beverage after games and a gift card as a token of appreciation at season’s end. I can check but I am pretty sure this is in line with the player contracts all teams in the league have with their players. In the formation of the League, all teams agreed not to pay players (per game) and the Royals are abiding by that agreement. Just wanted to put that nasty bit of innuendo to rest. As a side note, outside of a percentage of operating expenses for the next year, all profits the Royals team accumulate are donated back to minor sports and youth organizations within our geographical region. In the past two years the CB Royals have donated $55,000 back to these organizations. Thanks go to our players, our sponsors and our loyal fans.

    • NL Hockey Talk

      February 13, 2020 at 10:12 am

      Thank you for the clarification.

    • Curious onlooker

      February 13, 2020 at 1:40 pm

      As an executive member, you would know have inside knowledge the fans commenting here do not have.

      Are you able to verify the validity of this statement, please?

      “””The Corner Brook Royals organization is extremely upset. The organization is questioning why HNL “stuck its nose into league business” when the league had dealt with an issue that was in the process designed to protect players and guarantee their safety. They feel that HNL’s involvement was inappropriate and that Deer Lake showed its true colours in bypassing the league and appealing directly to HNL.”””

      • Mike L

        February 13, 2020 at 2:08 pm

        I will tell you that the Royals organization is not happy with the manner in which this issue played out. I cannot say more than that at this point.

        • Curious onlooker

          February 13, 2020 at 3:35 pm

          Thanks for the reply. That makes sense.
          Are you able to paste the rules and regulations or constitution or bylaws of the league in a comment here, please?
          There’s a lot of talk about what teams are allowed to do and what they’re not … would be nice for us all to see it in black and white.
          Those rules should also detail how discipline works too … that would be really helpful to know.
          Thanks very much.

          • Mike L

            February 13, 2020 at 10:24 pm

            I notice the league’s Memorandum of Agreement is not on the webiste. Hopefully that can be done.

  21. Pete

    February 13, 2020 at 12:36 pm

    Reading through this article and the comments show some truth behind some things and some lies. Since the league formed in 2017 its been a common topic of the red wings paying certain players and became evident in 2018 when they folded. Some points that are proven with evidence:
    – Corner Brook is bringing in 10,000 a night revenue, Take out Ice time,Referees,Cost of Players equipment per game, Food and Drinks for players your looking at 1500
    – 8500 dollars per night profit in which 50% is donated to organizations around the city. Rest is kept to provide budget for following year
    – Royals have a booster club in which every Wednesday they have a meeting to vote on ongoing discussions
    – Red Wings have been caught paying players and are still currently doing it with evidence from messages being sent by those players to other teams players
    – Evidence that certain red wings have made threats on social media towards other players
    – Art from sville folded his team because he seen it going downhill and back to a paid league where he couldnt afford it
    – PAB puts out a cry for player safety last year and HNL suspends president before even looking into thr safety aspects.
    – PAB lost 3 of their top players this year to do bullshit going on with in the league and knowing again they were playing paid red wings
    – Both PAB and Royals players have showed concerns to HNL that they feel it isnt a safe league to play in anymore.
    This is all evident with back loads of evidence to support it, so when will HNL make a move

    • Curious onlooker

      February 13, 2020 at 1:55 pm

      Interesting comment, indeed.

      Please post the evidence here (in the form of links will do) so we can all have a look.

      Otherwise, it’s tough for us to believe.

  22. Devon

    February 13, 2020 at 12:52 pm

    No team here is better than the other, Both corner brook and port aux basques do stuff shady and the wrong way. But if you look a the graph . CB and PAB are at a 2 and deer lake is at about a 9.5! No one is perfect but deer lake tends to be taking things to a new level

  23. Ryan

    February 13, 2020 at 1:21 pm

    I wonder how much is Brandon Hynes getting paid? it seems to me that the royals Are always complaining unless they are winning It is hockey u hit u get hit and u slash get over your self.

    • Jim

      February 13, 2020 at 1:59 pm

      Before Hynes was injured he missed 3 to 5 games up until that point don’t you think if he was being paid he would’ve played all those games. Unlike the top floor from deer Lake that have yet to miss the game because they won’t travel over the highway until I get an E transfer of their paycheque.

    • MIke L

      February 13, 2020 at 2:04 pm

      Read my comments from earlier this morning. Brandon Hynes or no other player on the Royal roster is getting paid. You may not like to hear that but that’s your issue. I won’t grace your last sentence with a comment other than to say it doesn’t represent 90% of the players who play in this league.

    • Jim

      February 13, 2020 at 2:08 pm

      Let’s get real here. If Hynes was being paid don’t you think the best defence in the league in Steve Gillard would also have been getting paid. Gillard has proven he is hands-down the best defenceman in this league and his track record in the QMJHL and maritime Junior prove it.If he was collecting a paycheque why would he quit

  24. Billy

    February 13, 2020 at 1:32 pm

    you don’t have to be that smart to figure out what top players are being paid,just figure out which players don’t miss any games,I go to most games and dl always got their top 4 or 5

  25. Billy

    February 13, 2020 at 3:00 pm

    the Pab player that got injured was injured in a fair hockey fight unlike the Penney/Hynes incident

  26. dennis

    February 13, 2020 at 5:32 pm

    Bob, That sucker punch you speak of! That was two guys settling a prior play in that game. Both guys dropped gloves and threw some hard punches! Unfortunately one player missed some work, other player im sure had a beat up face judging by the video i seen also. Just unfortunate that other player missed some work! But definitely no sucker punch in this incident.

    The incident with richardson and royals player few years ago probably could of been handled better. We can say whatever we want that the ref’s could have kept it under control, or royals player shouldnt of picked that battle with that certain guy in richardson or even richardson shouldn’t of even touched the ice because its way above his caliber hockey. We can assume anything and everything but whats done is done and unfortunately we cant change it.

    What can change is the future of the league! We are all on the same page in saying we like to get out and watch a game of hockey and support the league and teams. Takd away the pay cheques and players just get some beer and pizza and some equipment paid for, and we would run a fantastic league.

    Others may say guys wont play for free because they have a family to feed and home to pay for, if they get injured their up shit creek without a paddle and no compensation.

    What ever way you look at it, theres pros and cons to everything involved in a amuater hockey league.

    Whata not getting enough credit is the players that aren’t getting any money going out there for the love of the game and to give their community something to watch on the week. Us fans and communities tend to lose sight that with the social media bullshit and major backlash to the teams causes the great volunteers and players to not want to lace them up..

    Lets all of us, Corner Brook, Deer lake, Port aux Basques and any other team wanting to join this league. Play the game clean, fair and have a good time with some cold beers. At the end of the day no one is going to the NHL and its all for the community. LETS ALL PLAY OUR PART IN KEEPING HOCKEY AROUND ON THE WEST COAST

  27. Matt

    February 13, 2020 at 6:07 pm

    I’ve played in this league since it came back, but I’m done. I’ve expressed my concerns repeatedly to my team over the years regarding the dirt… and it’s getting worst, not better. This is a very dangerous league to play in. I’m reading through the comments and people are actually justifying teeth lost, hands broke, concussions, etc. Are you even serious? The whole intent of the article above is to highlight the league’s struggle to address player safety… safety that is players have been pleading for. The league exec has done their best to curb the garbage, only to be undermined by HNL. It’s obvious the governing body do not care one bit for player safety or they would be helping and supporting the league in its efforts. That’s the whole premise of the article. All teams are guilty! And players like myself are leaving in droves because of the dirt. When you agree to play a contact sport such as senior hockey you agree to take the inherent rush of injury… that can happen in any sport really. But that’s not what’s driving players away, it’s the blatant dirt. You can call us pussies all you want from the stands or behind the keyboard, but I’m not giving up my time to volunteer to play senior hockey only to have the arm chopped off me or my teeth pushed down my throat. That’s not part of the game and never should be. If two guys want to drop the mits and go at it, then that’s their choice. But that’s not what’s happening in this league. And I’m done because of it!.

    The league is on life support on its 9th life… and HNL is standing the coffin with a hammer and nail instead of supporting the executive in their efforts to keep guys like me playing!

  28. Jerry

    February 13, 2020 at 6:40 pm

    So now all you need for proof that players are being paid is if they show up and are dedicated to their teams? ?? it’s laughable. You people have no proof of any of these accusations. Also let it be known that I’m a Royals fan, but listening to you muppets saying you KNOW this and KNOW that is mind numbing. You all have no idea what’s accurate and what’s not. If you people were to have the same accusations say against someone for something criminal and couldn’t prove it you’d all be sued for slander, that’s exactly what you are all doing. Maybe they are getting paid, maybe they aren’t, PAB has been rumoured (see what I did there, I said rumoured) to have been giving guys massive inflated “gas bills” along with hotels meal allowances etc etc, didn’t see that brought up in here, but yet all you muppets KNOW how much Simms’s or Hynes is getting, go lie down. As for calling out certain players for what they do on the ice? Yes Richardson runs around but he doesn’t do anything crazy outside the limits or fellas like Fagan and Kyle George would have him gone from the game immediately as they love to be the centre of attention. In saying that, he’s not the only one running around targeting players, Paul Barter from PAB has done it all year, Luke Pilgrim , Andrew Stagg, and Kavlii haven’t touched the puck in 6-7 games they’ve played because all they do is head hunt, I’m embarrassed as a royals fan to read this article, while I believe injuries can happen at any time some are avoidable, I haven’t heard anyone mention concussions, the referees do absolutely nothing to protect the players from head injuries, every year multiple players sit multiple games from head injuries and it all goes uncalled. CB is the worst for head shots, Pilgrim and Stagg especially, they have no clue how to throw a hit that isn’t in someone’s face with elbows and gloves up yet someone from CB writes an article and says Deer Lake are predators??? Give me a break. Sounds like a cry baby post to me, and I’m ashamed to have read it, if they wanted to push back so it on the ice and give us fans something to cheer about, not on the internet like a bunch of whiny babies.

    • NL Hockey Talk

      February 13, 2020 at 7:06 pm

      Yet you read it & had to make a point that you were a “Royals Fan” several times to give yourself & your comment credibility? Thanks for clearing things up for us all.

    • Gary

      February 13, 2020 at 7:22 pm

      Nothing screams im from deer lake anymore than that paragraph of shit

      • Dave

        February 13, 2020 at 11:19 pm

        So Jerry what your saying is Andrew Stagg, Luke Pilgrim, Kavli and Barter are all out trying to intentionally injure players and you also claim your from corner brook but didnt once mention the red wings in your article. i have high suspicion that your problem leaving past the st.judes turnoff.. If your a royals fan and dont see Penney,Mckay and Richardson taking dirty runs and slashes you clearly are watching the royals pee wee team. Like the guy said pick another sport

    • Darren

      February 13, 2020 at 11:22 pm

      Couldn’t agree more. I’ve officiated this league and cb has most of the dirtiest players. Stagg, pilgrim, hillier are the worst. You want to talk dirty? hillier has 3 or 4 gross penalties in the past 2 years. That’s insane especially when this guy is a high level official himself. Funny this doesn’t get talked about though.

      • Joe

        February 13, 2020 at 11:57 pm

        So as an official Darren are you condoning Ryan Penneys, Lucas Mckays, Ian richardsons actions on the ice? Not saying your wrong in saying those players do some borderline things. But if your gonna call out royals players. Dont be gutless and not mention the players that played along side your son and protected him when you weren’t wearing res stripes. Not at all saying I condone Royals or Mariners actions but you have to see Red wings have players that are no better Darren. Your a high level ref! Call it right

      • Anon Player

        February 14, 2020 at 12:52 am

        Remind everyone what Hilliers gross penalties were this year? One of them which you gave him!!

        • Abby

          February 14, 2020 at 8:55 am

          For some rude comments to Darrens son and tipping the helmet off someone while he was down

      • Joel

        February 14, 2020 at 9:50 am

        Well Mr. Gillard, this is extremely unprofessional of you to even comment on this as your an official of the league. Especially the comments you have made, I wonder what Ed Flood would think of this. You are the referee who gave Hiller the first gross this season. Which even DL players have been heard saying it was only because he said something towards your son. This is an absolute disgrace!!

    • Kirk

      February 16, 2020 at 11:33 am

      I agree and I support the Redwings…one team is on here calling out another team yet all the teams are guilty of the same ole shit.. .they are or are not paying players in one form or another they are all bending the “rules” in one way or another to try and get an advantage…us this right not for me to say if they truely want change then make change don’t get in here blame it all on one team when they are all guilty

      • NL Hockey Talk

        February 16, 2020 at 1:25 pm

        Pony up the proof they are all “bending” the rules. This goes beyond wanting “change”, it is about the survival of the league. When players & organizations have lost trust in a system designed to protect them, the league is in jeopardy. Enjoy your Wings for the rest of the season because there is a very high likely hood there won’t be a league next year given what’s been developing.

  29. Jimmy

    February 13, 2020 at 7:33 pm

    Some things that havent been mentioned in this article is the players that are dirtier then some of the ones mentioned. Each team has a few, Lucas Mckay is slimmy player too, slashes behind the play and slew foots! i watched him in gander the last 2 years and he was invisible. Now apparently im told he’s the stud in deeer lake and thinks he’s lord almighty! Royals have stagg im told is a physical player and sometimes crosses the line. I havent seen a game yet and im going off rumours but call a spade a spade. hockey is a physical sport. Injuries will happen, scores will want to be settled and dirty plays will happen. It all depends on who wants to answer the bell

  30. Billy

    February 13, 2020 at 11:04 pm

    Jerry pick another sport ,you know nothing about this one

  31. the cat

    February 13, 2020 at 11:43 pm

    Writing from Grand Falls

    All this talk about the WCSHL being done to the dogs. Well i can tell you from first hand that if there is rumors about Simms and those players getting a Pay Cheque, 99% sure they are true. With Grand Falls and Gander trying to keep our league going for a 12 game year. We reached out to some players from the west coast to either return or enter their name in the draft. We had most of our returning players agree to return except for a single one in which stated he could play in deer lake for the same money. Here’s the funny part the Central league is a paid league, the west league has ZERO tolerance for paying players. We had a player enter into the draft do to not being paid by his current team. That team probably is the most financially stable team in NL senior hockey (HINT HINT) We have had chats with players from Port aux basque that have said they were paid gas by the km and free hotel rooms while in PAB. That does not go against the league constitution as it is accommodating their players. We’ve had deep decisions with various skilled players in that league that we tried to recruit to our league. Some told us they we’re working on turnaround away from home and were not up to travel when they return home. Some also said they just play in the west for a game of hockey and some beer. Here’s the common answer we got from 8-11 players we talked too. Their teams were covering costs of equipment and a a token of appreciation at the year end banquets, also that it was common knowledge to all players in the league that deer lake has their “Top 3” as they stated that were being paid, which ties back to someone mentioned earlier in the article.

    Both us and Gander have lost players in which they straight up said to do work commitments and numerous travel from st.johns were no longer interested in playing here and would play for free in St.Johns just for the game.

    I look at the east coast league this year, Yes they had starting trouble but from all reports it seems to be running smoothly as it ever did this year. Low crowd’s, great hockey and NO PAID PLAYERS.

    I can promise we could get a west and central league on the same page as the east league and their format. We could have some great hockey in NL.

    On to the dirty players and those things. In our league they didnt happen because justin pender or greg hoffe would jump the boards and teach you a lesson. Penney was always dirt and always will be. If lewis or hoffe were around he would shrink into his shell again like 5 years ago. Mckay was a 7th defenseman in gander who was invisible and looked like a little boy out there. Not sure why this league see’s him as a threat. Richardson played back in 2009. Could hardly skate then, can only imagine now. No place on the ice for him.

    Inclusion deer lake will put your league under until they want to abid by league rules.

  32. Billy

    February 14, 2020 at 12:03 am

    Want to fold your league,invite dl

  33. Barry

    February 14, 2020 at 12:04 am

    I don’t know of any of the other players being discussed but my son played Major Midget with Lucas Mckay. I remember being in the stands at goulds arena and every parent talking about how dirty mckay was and his father looking back at them and saying thats my son, they deserve it! So im not shocked he’s like it still. monkey see monkey do

  34. Billy

    February 14, 2020 at 12:08 am

    Hey Darren,just wondering why you quit officiating

  35. Shannon

    February 14, 2020 at 12:15 am

    Well said there cat

    • Cat

      February 14, 2020 at 12:22 am

      Someone has to put it out there. These Deer lake clowns have no idea whats really going on! Great work running your team the last few years. Province needs more hard working volunteers in the game like you

  36. Shannon

    February 14, 2020 at 12:20 am

    Still upsets me to see a lot of comments are missing the mark of this story the main message of this story is player safety is a great game but it’s there for kids to have something to look up too and the dirt in the league they shouldn’t see and the next main point is Hnl crossing the line in this league and killing the league not helping to build it

    • donny

      February 14, 2020 at 12:26 am

      Biggest issue i see is some referees that are involved are barely 20 years old and feel the intimidation from certain players and coaches. Never should be! If an official is scared to make a call do to backlash from players. Thoss players shouldnt be there.. main point is to respect the official!!! Furthermore, if there is injuries occurring in this league and teams back dooring league protocols maybe its time for teams to fold the tent until HNL wants to abid by the leagues rules too

  37. joe

    February 14, 2020 at 12:40 am

    Also Darren, im not sure as an official you should be getting involved in person issues with players when you still do lines for senior games! Not sure HNL would be real fond on it. It was bad enough watching you run after your son when he played, it was like he had a rope tied to your skates, where he went you followed to make sure he didnt get a little bruise.

  38. Abby

    February 15, 2020 at 9:18 am

    Every saying the royals are being sooks because things aren’t going there way, the royals are actually garbage and shouldn’t of won the games they did. Its only because of there goalies that they are half competitive.

  39. Kirk

    February 16, 2020 at 8:36 am

    I would like to see the doctors report that shows that Hynes had his hand broken. An out right lie to try and get their own way and to try and get an advantage because they have not been able to beat the red wings this year. Something that they are not use to. Hynes did not show up on the ice this year like all the hype about him was…this article was no doubt written by someone from the Royals org. That cannot handle not being in first place. Also this is what hockey nl is for is to oversee all hockey in Newfoundland. Do you honestly think for one minute that if the Royals were in the same situation that they would not have went the same route and have hockey Newfoundland look at it. Of course they would have but it didn’t go the way the Royals wanted so now the league is in trouble.. stop the bs and focus on playing hockey.i fine it funny that these two teams are the back bone of senior hockey on the west coast so play hockey and stop blaming everything but the team because you are not winning.

    • NL Hockey Talk

      February 16, 2020 at 1:23 pm

      Wrong. The article was written by no one involved with the Royals organization. I’m also left shaking my head that some people think that Hynes is faking an injury. As for the DL organization going to HNL, there was an agreed upon protocol that the Wings signed off on that did not involved HNL. All teams agreed to this & by bypassing the league’s own procedures, the DL actions has destroyed what little trust there was in the league.

  40. Geoff

    February 16, 2020 at 8:01 pm

    They say the Port aux Basques is hanging on by a tread , not having any games here this weekend did not help , who made that stupid call.

    • john

      February 17, 2020 at 5:12 pm

      Your own players from other towns probably didnt want to drive 2.5 hours to get cranked 10-0 again, Their sick of it now i guess

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